Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott
Quotable
"I still think there's a prevailing attitude out there that people think and are convinced that cops cover up for cops," Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott said. "It's been pretty well-known that we don't put up with any nonsense. Now, we do hope the investigation serves to exonerate the deputy."
Kevin Rambosk
Quotable
"There are agencies who pick five or seven top violations, and that's all internal affairs does," Collier Sheriff Kevin Rambosk said. "We have had a different perspective for a long time, and that is if there's a potential for discipline, even if it's a lesser type of a crime, I think it's important for the benefit of the deputies to have a more full type of investigation. That's where some of our numbers increased over some agencies."
NAPLES — Deputies in Lee County were accused of violating policies 338 times in five years. They were disciplined 72 percent of the time.
Deputies in Collier County faced 667 misconduct cases during the same time period. About one-third were disciplined.
On the surface, it would appear Lee County deputies have more to fear when internal affairs comes calling, and that Collier County deputies are accused of wrongdoing more.
But numbers don't necessarily tell the whole story, local law enforcement officials said.
"I suspect Collier takes their complaints every bit as seriously as we do, that they pursue the evidence where it takes them every bit as aggressively as we do," Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott said. "I think, but I don't know. How would I know?"
He wouldn't know because there's no uniform way of accounting for the number of misbehaving cops. Most agencies put out statistics about how many law enforcement employees are investigated for policy violations, but they generally can't be compared. It makes it tough to judge by the numbers whether an agency goes too easy on its officers or unfairly buckles down on accused deputies.
"It's almost impossible to do an apples-to-apples measurement," said Rick Courtemanche, police legal adviser to the city of Tallahassee and a statewide lecturer on internal affairs.
Each year, dozens of complaints about cops come through local sheriff's offices. Some are handled by supervisors in local districts. The most serious allegations are sent to internal affairs investigators.
It's their job to comb through evidence, conduct interviews and draw a conclusion about any malfeasance — just like a criminal investigation. The work can be exhaustive, involving bank records, surveillance tapes and interviews of accused deputies, who are required to speak with investigators.
When a deputy is found to have violated a policy, the case is "sustained." The case isn't sustained when there's not enough evidence to prove the allegation, or it's determined the allegation was false.
Collier County Sheriff Kevin Rambosk said his agency's recent internal affairs numbers are skewed because it has counted every complaint, regardless of severity, in recent years. Lee County only counts accusations investigated by its internal affairs division.
"There are agencies who pick five or seven top violations, and that's all internal affairs does," Rambosk said. "We have had a different perspective for a long time, and that is if there's a potential for discipline, even if it's a lesser type of a crime, I think it's important for the benefit of the deputies to have a more full type of investigation. That's where some of our numbers increased over some agencies."
While the number of internal affairs cases investigated is smaller in Lee County, Scott said the rate of sustained findings proves how seriously the agency takes complaints.
"It's been pretty well known that we don't put up with any nonsense," Scott said.
Rambosk, Scott and outside experts said it isn't fair to compare agencies and their internal affairs statistics. Most notably, there are significant differences in how cases are counted.
Fast facts
If four Lee County deputies are investigated for their response to a call and the allegations are sustained against two deputies while the other two are cleared, Lee County's final tally shows "two sustained" and "two not sustained." In the same scenario, Collier County's final count shows "one sustained" case, because it chooses to tally the most severe finding in a case.
For example, if four Lee County deputies are investigated for their response to a call and the allegations are sustained against two deputies while the other two are cleared, Lee County's final tally shows "two sustained" and "two not sustained." In the same scenario, Collier County's final count shows "one sustained" case, because it chooses to tally the most severe finding in a case.
The inconsistency in counting sustained cases or charges isn't necessarily bad, said David Frisby, a former internal affairs commander and retired city police chief of Monticello in northern Florida.
"It's not an issue per se, but if you're seeing numbers that are very, very different between agencies, it might be interesting to find out why," Frisby said. "Part of that is agencies evolve."
In addition, some agencies send more allegations to internal affairs than others. In Collier County, its internal affairs division started shifting some accusations to supervisors in 2009, choosing not to spend internal affairs investigators' time on charges like discourtesy. Since then, designated internal investigators have handled about 100 fewer cases per year.
"Other sheriffs might disagree, but I see no reason to have internal affairs look at a complaint of a deputy who didn't use his turn signal," Scott said. "I think it's ridiculous, because internal affairs mean sworn, taped interviews."
Some agencies even struggle with the best way to keep data. On its website, the Collier County Sheriff's Office recently advertised a 13 percent rate of sustained findings between 2008 and 2011.
After they were first questioned for this article, Collier sheriff's officials recounted and used a different way of classifying cases, now reporting sustained findings in 32 percent of cases during that time period.
The change, Rambosk said, was because the internal affairs numbers initially were calculated by a software program that incorrectly represented the results of cases.
"When I asked our guys how these numbers came about, I knew there were a lot more sustained than had been given," Rambosk said. "I asked them to take a look and I asked them to pull every single case file to figure out where we are. We found a couple of issues there."
The lack of uniform standards for assessing these types of cases leaves it up to residents and voters to examine the effectiveness of an agency's internal affairs division.
"As long as your process is consistent with the legal issues, you're left to do what works best in your community," said Courtemanche, the statewide lecturer. "Numbers, especially in internal affairs, are very difficult to deal with because there's not a lot in terms of a step-by-step process. It's not like a homicide, where you gather your evidence and it generally leads to what's going on."
In Lee County, Scott hopes his statistics show a hard-line stance against deputies.
"I still think there's a prevailing attitude out there that people think and are convinced that cops cover up for cops," Scott said. "It's been pretty well-known that we don't put up with any nonsense. Now, we do hope the investigation serves to exonerate the deputy."
For Rambosk, the ultimate goal of any internal investigation is the truth, regardless of what statistics show.
"We don't want to play games with people — not the public, not the deputies," he said. "Just, what are the facts?"
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Comments » 28
savethewhalz writes:
There always will be some differences in how law enforcement solves their internal problems. Take this for example...http://www.sptimes.com/2005/05/29/new...
676 writes:
Even though I personally don't like Scott, he does act on investigations by internal affairs.
Back in my cop days, while assigned to internal affairs, we would investigate, write up a comprehensive report of findings, and forward to the Chief. Even though we helped put several bad cops in prison for murder and felony theft, when it came to lesser charges, many times it became apparent that those in "favor" were given a slap on the wrist and the others fired or severly punished.
I don't have an answer to that, it was out of our hands. Bottom line though, cops do protect each other, literally and figuratively. The latter made it difficult to gather sufficient evidence for prosecution.
Ironsights writes:
No organization is without flaws or weak links, but the CCSO is a disgrace. Take pride in what you do, and have the honor to do what is right...even if it means the ostracism and black balling. You took the oath for a reason (obviously not the pay)... remember how good it felt the first time a kid looked at you in awe and admiration? Bring it back
BHawkins writes:
Only a third? Good old boys taking care of the good old boys. We need a change at the S.O. bring the integrity back, bring the honor back, make it safe for the citizens again of Collier County. I don't care who we elect get ride of Rambosk.
Sick writes:
CCSO is very good at keeping the community safe. Even when you feel you are being harassed. It's for your own good.
They are one of the finest forces in all of FL. If not the country. And if they are in fact in the top 100 in the U.S. that would make them the best in the world since the U.S. has better trained officers than anywhere in the world.
They truly are here to protect and serve.
User5678 writes:
CCSO is a joke. Anyone ever hear about the 6 gunshots fired in the Gate a few weeks back after a marked unit was seen entering an alley? Minutes later the entire neighborhood is on lockdown, no lights/no sirens, no helicopter, no one looking for anyone. And the good old boys kept asking witnesses what they saw.... not who they were or what they were doing in the area or what they heard but what they saw. No one was allowed to leave the area until about 5 the next morning and it NEVER made the news. Nope, will never hear anything about that. Didn't make it on CCSO's event map either.
When someone repeatedly calls in about a known drug house for over a YEAR with license plates, names, times that coke/heroin drops are made and nothing is done about it you lose faith. And we're talking carloads of the stuff in the DAYTIME. When citizens have to hire private detectives and put info on a platter and hand it to local law enforcement and STILL nothing gets done then what's the point? But maybe it's because they didn't like the info the PI gave on who was frequenting the property. It's ok, the distributor has moved to another location within our fine city.
profiler writes:
This is a great article meant to downplay the role of the amerika gestapo. amerika is a corrupt bully police state. amerika is worth NOTHING. amerika is the biggest most sophisticated terrorist state to ever rule the world. Now that other countries have nuclear capability the bully isn't quite so big. amerika tried to bully Iran and tried to shut off its sale of oil. Iran told amerika to go to hell and struck deals with China and India to sell its oil for gold. amerika is a dying state. amerika is bankrupt LOL! The nation-state is desperate and will stop at nothing to try and protect its world dominance. amerika is building the largest spy computer in the world because amerika fears the citizens. There have been recent cases of amerikan citizens renouncing citizenship and the gestapo police state of amerika has declared these people are STILL property of the state. You ARE property of this nazi police state..you are NOT sovereign. Does being born in amerika make you PROPERTY OF THE STATE? your gestapo government thinks so! Google Ken O'Keefe and see how this nazi gestapo country believes that it OWNS people born here. I urge all free thinking people to disavow any so called "duties" they claim you have as a citizen. You have NO duties to a nazi gestapo corrupt terrorist police state...the terrorist state of amerika....
sig heil comrads.....
RainMan writes:
hmmm... who would of thunk it
bonlyjonly writes:
Vinny, You will never be hired as a law enforcement officer. You could not pass the ethic checks, backgrund checks, or polygraphs.give it up. CCSO is doing just fine. Truthfully, Collier County has no desire for you or anyone like you to serve us in any way.Even the most disciplined CCSO officer would be a better candidate for position over you. Your character is just not suitable for law enforcement.
shwing writes:
Most complaints come from bored inmates looking to stir up trouble for someone who is doing their job properly. Inmates don't like deputies doing their jobs because it forces them to live by the set of rules laid out for them in jail. They are in jail because they can't follow the rules/law set out by our civilized society.
Those that bash and mention nazi, etc...get in a time machine and go back to Germany in 1941 if you are so fond of that era.
I guess we will enjoy this until November when you all go back in your holes for another 4 yrs (Vinny, profiler,etc.)
wentfishn writes:
Heyyy dude dont bogart that joint my friend , pass it around dude.
GeeRide writes:
So all it takes is a candidate for sheriff telling the buffoons at the NDN, “Psst, hey, I hear (by fired deputies) that the internal affairs complaints at the S.O. need to be looked in to.” to get a story published that’s deficient at best.
Trunk_Monkey writes:
You better move to a different country while you still can! See ya!
unfatcat writes:
This is a stupid article with no facts to support headline. If there were no complaints, no one would be doing their job and no one would be arrested.
The GUILTY complain and try to sue all of the time. Near 100% of this is just bogus crap.
Therealist writes:
Anybody who has ever had a a casual dealing with a CCSO officer can probably attest to the intimidation they use while conducting simple tasks, including "routine" traffic stops.
We would show you boys the respect you want if you'd learn to treat us like human beings and not criminals.
garyOfTheGulf writes:
What happens to the citzens that file a false complaint?
JustAnotherDayInParadise writes:
Agreed! I was hit in an accident a month ago today by a guy who had had a "few drinks" with dinner. It was his fault and his vehicle was totalled and mine needs extensive work not to mention medical issues and mounting bills from this drunk! After this guy freely admitting to a"Traffic Enforcement" cop he was at fault and he was drinking, he walked away without a ticket nor any alcohol blood tests nor sobriety "exercises". I called CCSO to complain and got the run around from a moron Sgt. named Chris Gonzalez, who gave me the typical canned LEO responses "we are all professionals", "We are experts when it comes to traffic crashes and drunk drivers", "Tickets are at an officer's discretion" even the classic "We are DUI machines" yatta,yatta,yatta. He might well just have said the cop was lazy and tired and wanted to go home because it was after 2am or that the drunken idiot that caused the accident knows so and so and he is very important and that I'm screwed.
And to think Gonzalez used to brag about how many tickets he handed out and used to keep score with other cops to see who could hand out the most citations any given day. This idiot that pulled out in front of me must be related to a cop, or have some strings he pulled to walk away without so much as even a slap on the wrist. WTF?
profiler writes:
"to serve and protect" means to serve and protect their interests. Free retirement off the taxpayers backs. Protect other offices that commit crimes and turn their heads. They are criminal thugs with badges. They might not be as bad as the guy that walks into a restaurant, pulls a gun, and robs the place but there is a BIG difference. You can legally shoot the guy robbing the place but you can't legally shoot one of these nazi thugs.
Those that complain about "nazi" comments might be well served to read some history and see for themselves whether these "nazi" references are fact or fiction. They should also study e germany and its stasi..the secret police. Put that up against what we have in amerika and decide for yourself what we have! Do some research, get educated, and see where the truth leads. You might not like the results though. And as far as the posting about gonzalez and his attitude..remember that crooks protect crooks.
sig heal comrads....the JOKE will be on the citizens when their eyes are opened.......
You ARE property of the state! this POS nazi country believes that being born here makes you THEIR PROPERTY! I have found cases where gestapo amerika claims that people ARE citizens even though they renounce citizenship! Once a person renounces citizenship...and the gestapo state DENIES the application (how is THAT for government crap..you must APPLY LOL) they claim you still BELONG to the state. amerika will NEVER be a free country until passports are given to every person..and those passports do NOT state "property of US government)...
this gestapo state may believe they own my body but they will NEVER own my thoughts. They will NEVER be able to buy protection from the way that I feel. They will NEVER be able to buy my allegience. They will NEVER be able to
convince me I have any "duties" as a citizen as long as they believe their chains are an acceptable way to treat their "citizens"...
sig heil comrads...
profiler writes:
amerika is a terrorist police state and these nazi thugs are their low lever enforcers..that simple.
sig heil comrads....welcome to the new amerika!
crayola writes:
Most internal affairs units exist to cover up for illegal and unethical behavior by law enforcement. For internal affairs to have any real value, they need to be supervised by a civillian review board. This kind of transparency would give their investigations more credibility in the eyes of the community and make law enforcement personnel cognizant of their responsibilities to the citizens of Collier County; however, no matter how effective a civillian review board might be, the law enforcement community would rather eat razor blades than submit to an independent oversight organization of this nature.
brighteyes writes:
Shwing says that "most" of the complaints are from inmates. Unfatcat says that "near" 100% is bogus crap. What about the rest of us? I think that everyone that posts on a CCSO story is either a deputy or someone that had something horrific happen to their family at the hands of CCSO. Everyone else doesn't care. I strongly doubt inmates are posting here, rather innocent families that have been devastated by something that happened at the hands of CCSO. I used to be one of the ones that didn't care. It's like everything else in life. When someone gets cancer, they become advocates for cancer prevention, when Parkinson's affect a family, they become advocates for the same. When my family was devastated by the actions of the CCSO, I started to read and respond to comments. I really doubt it is inmates that respond to these articles, but other innocent individuals that have had their bubble burst as to the integrity of this sheriff's department .
monkey14 writes:
Collier has a civilian review board.
jbm9 writes:
the review board can only make suggestions to ccso about cases discussed in front of them. that is a fact.
angrytxpyr writes:
The lack of an arrest is probably because an arrest would add to the DUI statistics and that's would not look good for candidate Rambosk. He wants all crime stats including criminal traffic violations to go down. Lower arrest statistics can be turned into an effective crime prevention claim even if its simply not true.
A lot of Law Enforcement agencies manipulate and otherwise develop a false perception of effective crime prevention and not arresting people, street side forgiveness of DUI and changing the type of crime investigated to a non criminal incident are just a few unethical but effective methods.
They do it on the streets and the Internal Affairs guys do it inside the agency. City of Naples fired their retired CCSO Deputy who was their internal affairs investigator for over 5 years. It seems they didn't like the "scathing" report of probable mis-conduct and inappropriate actions by several senior staff members. Yup a couple days after Retired Deputy Hendry gave his report to Lap Dog Rog he was terminated, funny how that all just seems to happen. City Council might want to look into that cause I don't think its over yet.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that CCSO has an entire room devoted to IA investigations that are never acted on or the results made public. I wouldn't doubt for a second that LCSO has a much smaller room but none the less a room devoted to the same thing.
EdNorton writes:
Nicely put,but like other posters below I would imagine any civilian group would have very little input.They're there as puppets.Read the 9 great articles below about some of the things talked about here,one being IA's investigations.
I'm surprised more people haven't read about the corruption/collusion within each LE department,right up to and including the FDLE and The Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission.The Governor recently removed 3 individuals from that commission,there are 2 more that don't belong there,Ernie George and Sheriff Rick Bradshaw.
Sheriff Bradshaw's job was saved years ago.I think he was a Captain when he stole a gun/pistol from the evidence lock up and lied about it,and tried to cover it up himself.All of that was covered up by IA's and his Chief long before Rick became a Sheriff.They simply didn't want to ruin his career.He should be in jail,same as some of the other officers in the stories below.
Anyway,here are 9 great articles to view:
http://cops.htcreative.com/
tallthin1 writes:
I cant recall how many times I have been harassed by CCSO....more than a few times pulled over for "speeding" when I was not...or "it looked like your seat belt was not in use, can I search your vehicle"...the list goes on....not all are bad...but there are for sure some bad apples in the bunch....
beerbong writes:
Here we go again. Just watch the BS fly. If you don't want to be here. shut up, and leave.
jbm9 writes:
In addition, some agencies send more allegations to internal affairs than others. In Collier County, its internal affairs division started shifting some accusations to supervisors in 2009, choosing not to spend internal affairs investigators' time on charges like discourtesy. Since then, designated internal investigators have handled about 100 fewer cases per year.
officer newmark:
may 6, 2004 use of force
sept. 7, 2004 abusive language/discourtesy
feb. 7,2005 inattention to duty
feb, 21, 2005 use of force
feb, 25,2005 use of force
nov. 9, 2006 non-compliance with rules and regulations
may 14, 2007 conduct unbecoming
april 4, 2008 harassment/discrimination/abusive language & discourtesy
april 24, 2008 abusive language /discourtesy
and another april 24,2008 abusive language /discourtesy
july 30, 2008 conduct unbecoming
aug. 18, 2008 conduct unbecoming/unnecessary force
sept. 2, 2008 conduct unbecoming
sept. 23, 2008 inattention to duty
feb. 18 2010 abusive language/discourtesy
15 complaints, 7 in 2008, 3 in april of 2008
i believe the sheriff’s office stated this is to be expected because he operates in the gang unit. complaints from inmates, outside citizens and his own agency. add 19 from cisenero for a grand total of 34 in just 2 officers. a disgrace to the other good officers who have to put up with corruption in their own department. give scott credit,he gets on tv and denounces his corrupt officers. rambosk only gets on tv when he forms a task force that makes him look good. not a leader, just a politician at best.
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